Your say….what is great about club photography, and what could make it better…
Kia ora tatou:
After following the discussion in Mary Jo Speaks, I think it is time to generate a post dedicated to the subject.
The other day Mary Jo commented on her experiences with the Freeman workshop and her frustration with a judging at a camera club, how she felt annoyed at the quality of the commentary on individual work.
I know how she feels.
About 15 tears( freudian slip) ago, I was a member of a large club in Christchurch, and a new photographer. I submitted some work of which I was( and still am) proud for comment. The judge, an elderly man of firmly-held convictions (!), tore it to shreds. I might add, he tore everybody’s work to shreds. He made little constructive comment, preferring to go ad hominem and use the oppportunity to exercise his vitriolic and acerbic wit ( well, half of it , anyway). Afterwards, the submitters stood around in a daze, stunned at what had been said. Angry, I went up to him and asked what I could have done to improve it. He was in a group at the time, and enjoying his notoriety. He turned to me and said: have you thought of taking up golf?
I never entered a club competition again.
But I kept photographing…for myself. In a way it freed me to have confidence in my own photographic path and to believe/trust my own vision.
I swore then that should I ever be in his position, that I would never do that to anybody. There is always something of merit in somebody’s work, and it seems to me that people, when they submit work for comment( aka judging), are looking for positive ways to improve what they are doing. My role therefore is to show them how they can achieve that.
People join camera clubs for a variety of reasons. Often it is for social ones, because they like the company of like-minded individuals ( sic Karen) . They may not make photographs any more, but they like to see what others are doing. They beaver quietly behind the scenes, doing all the work, making the cups of tea, etc. They are needed and to be valued.
Others join because they want to learn to be ” better” photographers. You might be interested to know that photography is, apparently, the second-most popular pasttime in the world (No, don’t ask). They come along to improve their photography and of course, put work up for comment. As time goes by, they progress through the ranks, maybe get their letters and are asked to comment on the work of other camera club members. The question here is what they have learned about what constitutes “good” photography. Naturally if that is what they know, i.e. what they have learned on their way to this point, that will in many cases be the criteria they adopt. But of course there are other viewpoints, for example those of a professional, or an art photographer, who have themselves been the recipient of and influenced by particular viewpoints. So who is to say what constitutes “good” photography?
Over the years I have watched clubs form and dissolve. I remember listening to the discussion at the time NPSNZ was formed. Much of what I heard related to the concept of of inclusive, non-judgemental, and competition-free. Over the years the club has grown enormously and has considerable vibrance. They do great things.
Last year I had the singular honour of addressing the Helderberg Club in SA. From the moment I walked in the room, I was struck by the warm, positive atmosphere and the extraordinary quality of the work. Members in this club support each other both formally and informally and celebrate each other’s work and achivements. They welcome visitors with open arms ( but South Africans are like that!). I was press-ganged into a quickfire panel critique session that gives members instant and positivefeedback( and prizes!). It is small wonder they are one of( if not the) the top clubs in SA.
The other day I was invited to join an online forum of photographers around the planet. They are buzzy , supportive and full of the joys of photography ( and they share great cocktail recipes). They do wonderful work. It is a huge honour to be a part of a group of such wonderful people and to see the amazing images they produce ( I think I may be the gray-haired elder statesman here…LOL). The concept of a global photographic club is now, of course, a reality. And there are plenty of them out there….
So to get to the point.
Between 400 and 500 of you from around the planet come here each day, look around and leave. I know, I watch the counter and the stats built into this site.
Now I am asking for your input.You all have experience and you will all have a position. Or you may not care. It is an opportunity for you to have a say in what works in photography, both at a local and national ( and indeed international) level and in image judging, and what could make it better. Things you might consider are:
- Are you a member of a club? If so, why did you join? Reasons
- What is good about your experience?
- What could be improved?
- Have you ever judged or been judged? Was it a positive experience? What could be done to improve things? Please make suggestions here.
- In what aesthetic ways has competition judging improved your photography?
- Is the camera club scene still relevant? Reasons.
There it is . The basis for your thoughts. Please comment. It would be really great to get feedback from offshore readers as well.
- Use a pseudonym if you wish.
- I have enabled comment moderation for the moment ( yes, the spammers have discovered blogs too…). That means it may take a little time to show.
- Please stay on topic (no flaming here)
March 26th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
The views of a non clubber….
Photography/art is a very personal thing & how or what we photograph is a reflection of the person we are. I want to be the best photographer I can be. I don’t know how how much potential is left in my head but I want to continually extend myself to see what comes out (photogtaphically speaking!). I photograph for me because I need to. Damn - that sounds selfish! If I was to be a club person & judged by others I run the risk that the judgement goes beyond my technical inadequacies & into the “why” I photograph. I think only I can try & answer this. Sure having somebody to guide you in your own direction helps. Being part of a group can be a great thing & you do push each other along. But you get to the stage where you need to grow & you don’t want to that as part of a group - you need to grow on your own. What would I miss about being a clubber…. being able to talk to people who may understand what you are on about. Diana (wife) starts losing interest when talking about Diana (camera). Thanks - oh well - back to my plastic camera with the plastic lens!
March 26th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
Yes I am a member of a club (NPSNZ). For the past 2 years I was also a member of CPS. Originally I joined NPSNZ to have a somewhere to go where photography, equipment, places to go to and speakers would entice me to expand my small world and get me out there experimenting and meeting others, who were as interested in learning more about photography as I was. And it did just that, to a certain extent. It got me out there, experimenting - maybe. NPSNZ had no competitions, which I like, but at the same time I did not get any feedback on my photo’s. I joined CPS in the hopes of getting that feedback but instead discovered that the ‘competition’ was just that. It seemed to be more about the ‘points’ scored and not so much about the visual and emotional effect of each picture in it’s own right. Feedback in the competitions is normally technical or compositional and limited due to the large number of entries.
What I discovered in the last 2 years is that I do make pictures for ME. What I like. It is my own opinion in the end that matters and if someone else likes it too then great, if not then too bad.
I am not doing this to make a living. It is a hobby, a past-time. Something to get me out of the house and enjoy time with others doing things that we all enjoy.
I will stay with NPSNZ because it gives me a chance to do this. I love the company, the places we go and the opportunity to actually see more of this country than I possibly would.
I might have strayed a bit here and waffled on certainly but hopefully some of your questions have been answered.
March 26th, 2007 at 6:49 pm
Looking at the good the bad and the ugly of the club scene, I must admitt while I have problems with the structured and formulactic photography it can also tap a wealth of knowledge to the budding photographger. My own experience was to be completely devastated by judges comments and it was over a year before I could get a print accepted in the monthly club (DPS) competition. Silly as it sounds I had national success before local. Two things were happening the judges were doing their best to be helpful but my work didn’t follow the norm. And more importantly it set me on a programme of self discovery via a reading programme.
Reading was about ‘why something was done’ but not how its was done. Studying the philosophies of photographers to help determine my own approach, I wanted my work to have somethjing to say. Eventually this was recognised in PSNZ and it was put down to a creative gene lurking somewhere in the body. (probaly not the bit that’s lost its hair but the bit that’s sat on) but even that doesn’t give the answer, it more simple than that.
It means thinking though the image to be made and what is to be said and then working out the best way of saying it.
And just doing it.
Richard.
March 26th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
Richard, Garry and Michele:
Thanks for your thoughts and input. They are valuable and appreciated.
Today 1000 people visited this site. If you all put in a word or 200, I would be up all night approving comments, and probably ringing the Guiness Book of records tomorrow!
Consider this a gentle challenge….
The only way to make sure people you agree with can speak is to support the rights of people you don’t agree with.
-Eleanor Holmes Norton
March 26th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
I am currently working on a reply. Getting the correct words together is taking a bit of time! So this string hasn’t finished yet, Tony!
Cheers
Barbara
March 27th, 2007 at 11:30 am
Firstly the where and why. I am a member of CPS and have been for almost a year. I came to joining after having been bitten by the photographic bug quite badly just prior to a family holiday in the UK. I had been nibbled at by the bug since I was at school but the advances in digital technology have created a technical and creative mix which suits me very well. I will have to admit to becoming passionate about the whole thing ( my wife might say obsessive but we wont go there!!!).
In terms of my photographic growth, joining CPS has been a useful but not earth shattering tool for me. As I said to Mary Jo I think that some may have too much of an expectation of what can be achieved at a photographic club. To turn up at CPS and expect to be delivered a programme that will turn you into a great photographer will only lead to dissapointment. I think Ive got better by going out and looking for the knowledge and challenges that I need in all sorts of places. Ive read book and magazines, looked at photographs in galleries and online, spent hours on the internet taking bits from lots of “how to be a photographer” sites, more importantly Ive done two week long workshops (Tonys in Okura and recently the Freeman Patterson workshop) and most importantly of all Ive made lots of pictures.
CPS can help when you hear from others “try this website” or “this workshop is really good” but if you want to grow then you are responsible for your own growth so get out and do it.
When I joined CPS I was puzzled by, and I still havnt completely got my head around, the idea of competitions. Competetive art??? Do watercolour painters of potters do this sort of thing too??? (I dont know do they?) Perhaps it is the technical nature of photography which lends itself to the sort of people who thrive when they compete. Having said that I actually enjoy competitions and it is quite a buzz to get your print accepted. Its just that when you dont get anywhere and you dont know why its very negative.
The first couple of competition I saw judged were judged by very good judges and I got a lot from the comments. I recall a couple of images in the comp Richard judged (by the way I meant grumpy in the nicest possible way Richard!!!) which frankly wernt very good. The first was a straight on shot of a flower and to paraphrase him he said “I dont understand this. what are you trying to say - is it a dainty little flower on a big bush… is it what you see each morning outside you kitchen window…what… decide what you are trying to say then make the picture”. The second was a cat sitting on a blokes sholder while he was reading a book, it was shot square on using harsh on camera flash. Richard said “Im really dissapointed by this. Good story but poorly executed”. He then went on with a lesson in available light photography and how to put mood into a picture. As I said I got more from that night than the rest of the year.
The other extreme, and Ive certainly experience it, is “Well seen but it didnt really work for me…next photo please”.
There is obviously a skill in judging and passing comment which some have to a greater level then others. The number of images to be judged is also a factor - it must be difficult to find a constructive and origional comment to make for 80-100 images. I find myself deciding in the first 5 or so minutes of a commentry “am I going to get much from this judge?” If I think that I am not going to get much I concentrate less on what they say and judge the images for myself. I ask “do I like it?” “why” “how would I have done it?” “do I agree with the judge?” “is it worth a closer look?”….. I also prefer print competitions because I can get another look after the judging. To me this is a way of getting a growth experience out of something which could otherwise be dissapointing.
As I also said to Mary Jo, on both of the workshops which I have done a very significant part of my learning experience has been from the other course members. I am looking foreward to us getting together with our Christchurch branch of Freeman Workshoppers to continue this experience. I know that within big clubs such as CPS there are small unofficial sub groups which do exactly the same thing. Perhaps they are more valuable than the overall club.
So are photo clubs worthwhile? In my view yes but as a means to an end rather than as the end itself.
To be a better photographer you have to make yourself a better photographer.
Ian
over to you Barbara
March 27th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
I was planning a reply to Mary Jo (what an eloquent letter!) but this challenge to write 200 words opens up even more opportunity for discussion. Good to see the responses coming in. We’ve all got different views worth airing.
I’ll work through the questions posed.
Yes, I’m a camera club member and I joined primarily because I wanted to become better at photography. I also wanted to meet others interested in photography - you know, support from the like-minded.
What is good about my experience? I found that support I was looking for and I’ve also made friends who have become part of my life outside camera club. (That was an unforeseen, and very welcome, consequence.) I enjoy listening to various speakers, both guest and from within the club, and I usually learn something from them or come away with something to think about. I see a great deal of very varied work produced by other photographers. (OK, I could find plenty on the web, which I don’t explore much, as well as in books, but I also like seeing them alongside other people and having the opportunity to discuss them afterwards.) I enjoy the fieldtrips the club provides. Workshops have been helpful. Perhaps the most important thing was that it was participating in club that indirectly led me to a couple of challenging courses where I really grew photographically, the club having first helped me hone [I've just deleted develop!] my skills to a point where I had enough experience to be able cope.
What could be improved? I don’t usually enjoy the competitions so much - more below. However, if there was more positive critiquing perhaps I would.
Yes, I’ve been judged, but have never come in for criticism as harsh as that experienced by you, Tony, although there have been times when I’ve had nothing entered (thank goodness) but had a strong urge to crawl under my seat at the judge’s remarks. (If I’d had Mary Jo’s roll of Mentos, I’d have eaten the lot, too, and set a match to a long exhalation in the judge’s direction. I didn’t have even half a roll of Life Savers.) But then there have been other judges who have tried to be helpful and provided a much more positive experience. A few years ago, like you, Mary Jo, I was full of excitement and euphoria as a result of one of the photography courses I’ve mentioned. I went to club and it - well, the competition side anyway - seemed so removed from what I felt was relevant that I briefly considered resigning. However, when I looked back I could see that I had benefited from the club and that there was still plenty in the club scene for me. Like Ian I decided to take from it what I wanted and leave the rest. Obviously there were people who thrived on competitions and if that’s what they liked, why shouldn’t they have them? The sort of photography I’m interested in doing doesn’t seem to be the sort that does well in competitions. That’s OK.
I haven’t taken part in competitions for several years. The last year I did so I became so depressed at seeing a number of images that I felt pleased with being judged unsuccessful (for what often seemed petty reasons) that I decided to see if I could finish the year with a total of zero successes. (If you’re not winning, shift the goalpost!) I like playing around with photography, experimenting with techniques. For the very next competition I submitted an image that I’d had fun making, liked, but would not previously have considered entering. “Confound the judge, whoever he or she is,” I muttered. To my great surprise it was my very first success that year. (Thanks for appreciating it, Lynn! You see, I even remember who it was! You gave my confidence a boost.)
Yes, I’ve judged. Very reluctantly. Only after serious arm-twisting. I didn’t - still don’t - feel qualified to pass judgement on other people’s images. It was for a small club. I tried to make it as positive an experience for the people concerned as possible. I saw my brief as trying to help them improve their photography - that’s why they were entering the competitions. For each image I first commented on something good in the image, then made a suggestion as to how I thought it might be made stronger (if that was relevant), and I then finished with another positive comment, trying to encourage the members to set forth with their cameras again. Beforehand I’d told them the criteria I’d used in relation to the topic/genre of each separate competition, but pointed out that in the final analysis my decision was subjective. To reinforce this, I later showed them an image - it’s a good one - that had been unsuccessful in a club competition. (I’d been asked to take along some of my work and talk about it. )
In what aesthetic ways has competition judging improved my photography? Well, in the early years it really did improve. I listened to judges’ comments (not just those relating to my images) and learnt a lot. Most arts have a body of wisdom as to what works and what doesn’t. The so-called rule-of-thirds, for example, actually has a scientific basis in terms of aesthetics - research has been done to check it out. Like Freeman, I prefer the term “principles”, rather than “rules”. I think that if we learn and practise these principles we’re then in a position to make an informed decision as to when they should be discarded. That’s what great practitioners in other forms of the Arts do. I think perhaps many, though by no means all, club judges haven’t made the step from “rules” to “principles”. And to be fair, they may have been given an indication as to the approximate percentage of successful images the club wants. After all, it’s a Competition, isn’t it? (Some judges actually comment on feeling constrained, saying they’d like to have given more acceptances but felt obliged to keep within the range required.) I suspect those of us who would consider ourselves part of Ian’s band of photographic nutters (I like the idea of being one of those!) have grown beyond club competitions in their current form.
Is the camera club scene still relevant? Well, in my own case I think I’ve answered that.
And a note to Ian: I, too, rather tripped over the “grey-haired elder statesman” bit. (Well, that’s if it’s the same person I’m thinking of!) It does sound a rather stuffy description of someone who has - admirably, and in spite of a silvering of the locks - managed not to grow out of some of the devilment of youth. (I’m pretty sure that somewhere, or at some time, he has referred to himself as being regarded in some circles as something of an “enfant terrible”.) I like your idea, though.
PS. I was about to post this when I discovered Ian’s comment. I think you’ve put the Competition Thing very well, Ian. And at times I also find myself critiquing the judge’s critiquing. I agree - for me clubs, competitions, are a means to an end, but not the end in itself.
March 27th, 2007 at 7:30 pm
Are you a member of a club? If so, why did you join? Reasons
Yep, I’m a member of CPS, although I haven’t been to a meeting or entered a competition for over a year now.
I joined because I got the photography bug, and wanted to develop my skills.
What is good about your experience?
For the first couple of years, I found membership of the club very rewarding, and I am sure my photography improved enormously. Just seeing some of the excellent work there helped me to realise what can be achieved, and gave me the motivation to work hard at improving my “seeing” skills.
I certainly see the world with different eyes now – always keeping an eye on the light and looking for that “perfect moment” (haven’t found it yet!). This may have happened anyway, but I think the experience of seeing others’ work on a regular basis fast-tracked this process.
I must admit I quite enjoyed the competitive aspect although, like others, was occasionally frustrated at some of the judging. Your experience, Tony, sounds shocking – there is no excuse for that sort of approach. To be fair, I never saw any judging like that.
I know it’s easy to knock camera clubs, and judging that can be overly formulaic. But I would have been proud to have taken many of the competition winning images I have seen – on the whole I would suggest that the most compelling images do generally make it to the top. I guess the question is, how many other compelling images might there have been if the “non-club” people also participated ?
What could be improved?
No major suggestions – a club is a club, and human nature will always prevail, for better or worse. Some people will thrive, others will get turned off.
Have you ever judged or been judged? Was it a positive experience? What could be done to improve things? Please make suggestions here.
Entering competitions has generally a positive experience for me, and a learning one – certainly at the start. When my images were rejected earlier on, generally I could see why (with hindsight). Now I feel more confident of what I like in an image, and therefore being judged doesn’t have quite the same appeal as it once did (!)
By definition, judging is subjective, and therefore you can’t always expect to agree with the judge’s assessments. Panel judging may help to reduce this subjectivity, but obviously it’s a question of resources.
It would be quite interesting to request club members (or non-members, for that matter) to score competition entries (via the web) and compare those results with the judge’s. May help to stimulate discussion on what makes a picture work and what doesn’t.
I haven’t judged, and I don’t wish to, or feel competent to. I can point out what I like or dislike, but would hate to promote that view as being the definitive one.
In what aesthetic ways has competition judging improved your photography?
I think it has made me try to focus on the bare essentials – strip out the clutter which doesn’t add to the main subject. And basic stuff like technical quality – prints that have a colour cast, been over-sharpened etc really suffer when they’re set against a good print.
Is the camera club scene still relevant? Reasons.
Yes. The internet offers a lot of potential, but it’s pretty hard to beat ongoing person to person encouragement and guidance (which a club at its best can provide). I understand that club memberships are generally on the increase, with a good proportion of younger people joining, so they’re presumably doing something right.
March 28th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Are you a member of a Camera Club – If so, why did you join? What is good about your experience?
I first joined a small country camera club in 1992 when I moved to North Canterbury and knew nobody. I joined to meet people, to network, to learn about the photographic infrastructure in Canterbury and to share the language of photography with like minded souls. And it satisfied my aims. I learned where to attend courses (I am a course “addict”! – one never stops learning) amongst others being the adult continuing education courses at the University of Canterbury where I learned heaps from some of the south island masters of photography including Richard Poole, Matheson Beaumont and Lindsay McLeod – all of whom have a willingness to unreservedly share their knowledge.
Our small club sometimes had outside judges for competitions – amongst who was Derek Hearn from CPS – who was most supportive on how an image could be improved. He was an expert (imho) in helping people to extend their photographic craft. His feedback, and other judges’ (and camera club members) feedback at this time, helped me extend my “craft” of preparing a print or creating an image. As well artistic ability or different ways of using the camera tools to create imagery were passed on. Via the camera club situation (and other courses) I learned more about how to use my camera to help me create the images I see than I had in the ten years before. I also learned how to set up and operate my own darkroom. During this time I obtained both my LPSNZ and ASPSNZ – with once again generous advice from people within the club scene on the how to of presentation – but the images were all my creations and my way of seeing using the skills I learned!
I subsequently joined CPS in 2001 – to learn more about “everything” – and have certainly learned a lot from their workshops and field trips as well as guest speakers on club nights. Living in the country I can’t attend all meetings but those that I do I find enjoyable, entertaining and educational.
A couple of years ago I joined NPS – to learn more about the specifics of creating top natural history and “nature” images as well as hearing the guest speakers at this club. They have a different ethos (as has already been noted by others) and their culture I believe although different is complementary to CPS. There are many people who have joined both clubs, as well as belonging to one of the smaller clubs in Canterbury – obviously because each club provides different resources and information in differing environments. I have happily learned things from both clubs.
One of the really good things about camera clubs is that if you want to you can learn much at a relatively inexpensive cost Or free - once you have paid your minimal joining fee). I am also aware that the smaller clubs around Canterbury frequently have guest speakers and workshops from which, if people attended, they would learn lots.
However, I do believe that if one wants to learn a specific topic in detail (such as Photoshop, for example) – one must spend time, and lots of it, either reading, doing courses (by physical attendance) or correspondence courses in the modern way - such as the many online courses that are now available over the internet – and these are outside the camera club scene – but I learned about the existence of most of them by being in a camera club.
How could it be improved?
The “club scene” in Christchurch / Canterbury I believe has enough differences to cater for most tastes and because there are people who like different styles our population here is well catered for.
I think that one of the problems might be that new people are elected onto the committees and maybe not all of them know what resources are available – especially those “free” resources provided by PSNZ such recorded lectures etc - many of which do require updating – but then the provision of such information is done by volunteers and this takes time – and unfortunately often it is the same people who continue to provide their services free – and only so much can be done.
I don’t know how that can be overcome.
Have you ever judged or been judged? Was it a positive experience? What could be done to improve things? Please make suggestions here.
Now we get to the nitty gritty of where most people seem to have “objections to camera clubs”. In my opinion, good photographers don’t always make good judges. There is a skill in passing “judgement” or critiquing and giving feedback on other’s work. Some people are very able to do this and others are hopeless and we have all heard both types. And importantly their opinion is not only subjective but also only that of one person. Many camera club members (me included) have had images “not selected” in one camera club competition (or PSNZ salon) only to have it be selected a champion image in another competition or salon where there is a different “judge or selector”, or “set of judges”.
One of the things I learned many years ago in Toastmasters was the how one should provide feedback to people who are learning – one should note a good point, a point which could be improved and then provide information on how that improvement can occur. So again, it is in the skill of the “judge” whether this is successful or not.
There are a number of reasons to enter salons, or competitions (both of which have different reasons for being). Firstly you can enter what you consider to be your best image, because you want to do well in competition, or secondly you could enter an image you have been working on because you want feedback on how to improve this image. Again it is the skill of the judge how well this works.
Have I been judged – frequently – and most often positively, although a few times negatively – and I have especially disagreed with the negative comments made. However, this has made me rethink some aspects of my photographic creativity – and while I don’t always agree with the comments, I don’t give up!
Have I been a judge? Yes. And I hate it! But I try and do my best and give positive feedback. Again it is only one opinion.
One of the things we do in our small country club, where there are only about 8 people who generally attend on a club night, is rather than have one judge of our competition – we do a popular vote on the night and then discuss the images as to why they did well or how they could do better. This works well and everyone is involved – but I am not sure how this could work in a larger club with bigger numbers. I am also in an online club where images are assessed by all members and the popular vote selects the winning images. I think it is good to see high quality work and then work out for oneself why this image was successful.
In what aesthetic ways has competition judging improved your photography?
It hasn’t very often, but sometimes another way of seeing how my image could have been presented (and this is in the “craft mode rather than the art mode”) has helped. Or maybe where some burning or dodging in printing or a subtle change in composition might have improved the strength of an image.
Is the Camera Club scene still very relevant? Reasons?
I think it is because you are sharing ideas and the language of photography in a supportive environment of like minded addicts. I think that a lot of the angst has come about because of disagreement with the “competitive” mode and that not all images do well in competition, or salons, but might do extremely well as part of a story or series, or latterly in audiovisual presentations.
I have not talked about “emotional meanings” of images or “art” as this has been well covered elsewhere – and Tony did want us to stay on topic!
Well, for what it’s worth, that’s my rave – and very definitely more than 200 words! I hope it is a little helpful
Cheers
Barbara
March 28th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
Hi Tony,
I’m awed at the discussion that has sprung from my note to you. My thoughts keep churning…
I had an interesting experience while reading ‘The Press’ this morning. From a piece about Kelcy Taratoa’s exhibit at ChCh art museum, the following words leapt off the page at me:
“…his true Turangawaewae, his place to stand and place of belonging”.
The page seemed to turn itself and from a piece about a Hotere painting out jumped:
“Tenei taku manu te rere atu nei — he karere — no Te whitinga mai o te ra. Pataia mai — ia ahu mai Koe I hea? KO WAI KOE?
(This is my bird that flies to you – a messenger from where the sun rises – It asks from where have you come? WHO ARE YOU?)
I think I’ve identified the crux of the problem (as it relates to me).
I am hungry for input, stimulation, inspiration and assistance.
My needs. My wants.
Judges, and all critics, viewers, consumers of visual expression are viewing from where they stand. Their judgment is about who they are and that place from where they have come.
A viewer looks at my photographic work.
What he sees belongs to him.
The image is I.
The viewer is seeing himself through a mirror held by my hands.
My images germinate in “that place from where I have come”.
That place needs more respect than I have given it. It must hold greater influence on my work than any outside force.
With a stronger awareness of that place, I can become more effective in separating salient input from detritus. I will then be able to choose input that will augment my place. Input that I will incorporate into the future ‘place from where I have come’.
My camera club experience created discomfort. That discomfort caused me to examine its source and reason.
Now that I have named it I can work on it.
And then I can return to camera club.
Or maybe I won’t need to.
More likely, I’ll put myself in a situation that brings new problems to solve.
March 29th, 2007 at 10:06 am
Yes, I am a member of CPS and PSNZ. One day maybe I will find the motivation to put something together for a Fellowship challenge. I love photography but found the competitions did not do it for me personally. Again, one day I may enter the odd competition, but certainly not on a regular basis. Back 7-8 years ago when I (re)joined CPS I needed something or someone to put the fire back in my belly. It didn’t take long to get promoted up to A grade and I looked around me at the “established” group of photographers, many with Fs after their name, and the work that they showed. I felt I could match them - and did! Over the course of 12-18 months I started producing work that I thought would do well in competitions and please the judges. At the end of 2001 I won the A grade competition. I guess I achieved what I set out to do. But at the end I was left frustrated - the images I was producing weren’t really me. They were ok but all along the motivation was competition, not personal. At one point during 2001 one image was rejected and absolutely rubbished by a judge which left me dismayed - but I was convinced it was good, so I resubmitted it in the very next competiton and it received an honours. I see this happening regularly with other members. Since 2001 I have taken thousands of images, mainly on expeditions, and many I’m very happy with personally. I guess the great outdoors is my first love with photography tagging along a very close second. I am now very selective which CPS meetings I attend - in many ways the club I feel is a victim of its own success - there are so many members with images in competitions, some evenings can be lengthy and are rather boring (not that I know what that word means!). I doubt I will ever regularly compete again. I know what I like for me - I am my own harshest critic and I don’t feel I need a judge to tell me what I already know most of the time, and I certainly do not need the accolades that frequently come from success at competitons. All this does not mean that I have become the perfect photographer - hell, far from it. I am still searching for something but I’m not sure what that something is right now - it’ll come, but not through competitions. I’m hopeful that TB might provide the fire in my belly that I’m still seeking one way or the other - I’m in no desperate hurry!!
April 1st, 2007 at 11:02 pm
Tony,
I have to say I like this post, think it starts a conversation that some people have been too polite to try… dunno why, or maybe that’s the blunt Scotsman in me?
Anyway my 2cents
1. Are you a member of a club? If so, why did you join? Reasons
Yes I joined a club, I have to say I blame you entirely for my whole addiction to photography!… I moved to NZ about 4 years ago with work, like I had done previously i found I was working a little too hard and a friend suggested I come along to a night class that some dodgy kiwi was running… Advance Photography 1 i think it was called!… knowing nothing about photography or in some cases which way round the darn thing went I wondered if I would be wasting my money (something close to a Scotsman’s heart) and of course the tutors time, something no doubt close to his!? I loved the class and found what started as a hobby and is now a passion and desperately wanted to get better and better at it with the desire to have an image that i could hang on my wall at home and say… I did that and it’s just stunning…. The photography club seemed like a great idea, immersed in a room of people each loving photography and all willing to share knowledge with each other, to praise and critique as required and to help each other grow…. Hey I was young and innocent, what did I know?
2. What is good about your experience?
I like that there are a bunch of people who have become friends, I like that they are willing to share knowledge with you. I really enjoy the field trips as well, as a incomer to these wonderful islands I love the fact I get to explore area’s I may not normally see.
3. What could be improved?
The point, for me, of a photography club, or even just a bunch of people sitting round talking about it is to find ways of improving and inspiring each other to the next image, the next gasp when you show people what you’ve captured. To be able to grow you need to learn, you can do this only if people share knowledge…. thats a problem in some clubs, possibly the bigger ones, I don’t know. Competitions are fun, they add a bit of excitement but people get hung up on entering a competition just to win an award or a prise or a cup… they forget, and I think more over those judging forget the main thing that needs to come out of a competition is feedback, what did you like, what didn’t you like…why!? and how do we improve on that image….not sarcastic witty remarks.
My pet hate is people resubmitting images, how does that help develop talent?… why rummage in your collection for something to submit when you could go out and take something new?… I don’t get that.
4. Have you ever judged or been judged? Was it a positive experience? What could be done to improve things? Please make suggestions here.
I have continued to enter competitions and scribble my notes as judges dismiss the image… too dark, don’t get it… it’s not funny… not sure what your trying to say here and so on. By an large I’m disappointed in the judging, the time is spent on those gaining awards, not those who don’t… and who needs more help? When you judge something you are deciding that it’s not good enough, which is fine, I don’t believe everyone should get a prize for turning up…. whole other rant that one. However I do think that the judge must know what they didn’t like… so share that, they could probably suggest an improvement…. share that!.. most of all leave the people with an indication of how they can grow from the image.
5. In what aesthetic ways has competition judging improved your photography?
I have found myself thinking more about what to leave out, what am I trying to convey with the image that ever before, but I don’t know if that’s the club impact, yours, friends , the books and magazines or just a combination of all things.
6. Is the camera club scene still relevant? Reasons.
I think it is relevant, if…. it can change and it needs to change. We need people to run the clubs, but they need to run it for the club and not for themselves. We need to change things to force judges to provide real feedback, otherwise people get despondent and give up… Clubs should be a safe breading ground for talent to come through, but it needs to have a route, I mean so you get good in club photography, where to next?… enter external competitions? why?.. how!? If people want to gain their letters then how, and for that matter why should they, what does it do for them?… or why not just out of satisfaction? is there a way for people to make a living at it? all that sort of stuff, it’s not just about awards, or it shouldn’t be.
I think the main thing for clubs is as you’ve suggested a meeting place for people who enjoy photography. There will always be those who have been doing it for 100’s of years who know better but wont share and don’t think digital will catch on , never mind allowed in the clubs!… but I think over time it’ll change, it has to.
Then again, look at it another way, what would you want out a ‘club’?